Dutch Bros. To Offer Mobile Ordering For The First Time Amid Profits

[Alpha8472]

What ever happened to Coffee Bean? There used to many inside of Ralphs and a few in the San Francisco Bay Area. Now they seemed to have disappeared from Northern California. Are there a lot still in Southern California?

I always thought of Coffee Bean as having a smaller menu than Starbucks.

[storewanderer]

What ever happened to Coffee Bean? There used to many inside of Ralphs and a few in the San Francisco Bay Area. Now they seemed to have disappeared from Northern California. Are there a lot still in Southern California?

I always thought of Coffee Bean as having a smaller menu than Starbucks.

Coffee Bean used to have a lot of corporate operated stores, then did a program that refranchised a bunch of corporate stores and it seems like the brand has had some issues since then. I don't notice much in the way of advertising or anything. It doesn't feel like they are popular. I notice them in some airports now as Starbucks has been disappearing from some airports.

For years in NorCal they had 2-3 stores in San Francisco proper; they were corporate operated stores. That was it- no other NorCal locations. One was very well positioned on Market Street, supposedly lost its lease to Peet's (still open there too). Another was over by Fisherman's Wharf and that one wasn't positioned quite as well. I forget where the third was but it ran limited hours. The San Francisco locations used to be excellent; great product, well run, fair prices, back when they were corporate op. Then they sold those San Francisco units to a franchisee and the franchisee was sold the territory in the bay area to expand; they opened some locations scattered around the bay area and many closed quickly; a few did remain for a few years; but ultimately, we see how that worked out- every store is closed and the brand is completely out of the market in NorCal.

I went into the one that was next to the Pleasant Hill Sprouts some years ago when it opened by the franchisee mentioned above and it seemed like the employees didn't know what they were doing, weren't in any kind of uniforms, and the price for the drink was very high. It had no customers. The tea was very watery and clearly not made correctly.

Coffee Bean has a better tea program than Starbucks as they have a larger flavor assortment and will do various flavors of iced tea to order.

They do a high concentrate "brew" using the tea leafs for iced tea then dilute with water/pour over ice.

[ClownLoach]

What ever happened to Coffee Bean? There used to many inside of Ralphs and a few in the San Francisco Bay Area. Now they seemed to have disappeared from Northern California. Are there a lot still in Southern California?

I always thought of Coffee Bean as having a smaller menu than Starbucks.

Coffee Bean used to have a lot of corporate operated stores, then did a program that refranchised a bunch of corporate stores and it seems like the brand has had some issues since then. I don't notice much in the way of advertising or anything. It doesn't feel like they are popular. I notice them in some airports now as Starbucks has been disappearing from some airports.

For years in NorCal they had 2-3 stores in San Francisco proper; they were corporate operated stores. That was it- no other NorCal locations. One was very well positioned on Market Street, supposedly lost its lease to Peet's (still open there too). Another was over by Fisherman's Wharf and that one wasn't positioned quite as well. I forget where the third was but it ran limited hours. The San Francisco locations used to be excellent; great product, well run, fair prices, back when they were corporate op. Then they sold those San Francisco units to a franchisee and the franchisee was sold the territory in the bay area to expand; they opened some locations scattered around the bay area and many closed quickly; a few did remain for a few years; but ultimately, we see how that worked out- every store is closed and the brand is completely out of the market in NorCal.

I went into the one that was next to the Pleasant Hill Sprouts some years ago when it opened by the franchisee mentioned above and it seemed like the employees didn't know what they were doing, weren't in any kind of uniforms, and the price for the drink was very high. It had no customers. The tea was very watery and clearly not made correctly.

Coffee Bean has a better tea program than Starbucks as they have a larger flavor assortment and will do various flavors of iced tea to order.

They do a high concentrate "brew" using the tea leafs for iced tea then dilute with water/pour over ice.

Nearly all non drive thru locations have closed in SoCal as well. They were acquired by Jollibee several years ago and since then have pushed to get to near 100% franchise and drive thru, but also out of licensing compact locations like grocery stores and airports. You are correct that they have probably half the store count they did before and they are terribly inconsistent now. Most franchise stores I walk into are running with one employee in the afternoons, which when you consider their strongest offering is the Ice Blended it makes no sense to see such bad staffing during busiest hours. This is a brand that is going to have a real problem with Dutch Bros if they don't address quality control. I think their flavor profile is closer to Dutch Bros. Many very new sites were closed in the last few years; some didn't even make it one year. But they do continue to add new stores. In the last month they opened a couple new SoCal locations but unfortunately I can't find the story, it was one of those Instagram stories that expires after 24 hours. They definitely need a better social media presence.

[Alpha8472]

I remember the Coffee Bean by the Walnut Creek, California Sprouts. It was replaced by Moni Coffee in 2020, but that also closed.

[storewanderer]

What ever happened to Coffee Bean? There used to many inside of Ralphs and a few in the San Francisco Bay Area. Now they seemed to have disappeared from Northern California. Are there a lot still in Southern California?

I always thought of Coffee Bean as having a smaller menu than Starbucks.

Coffee Bean used to have a lot of corporate operated stores, then did a program that refranchised a bunch of corporate stores and it seems like the brand has had some issues since then. I don't notice much in the way of advertising or anything. It doesn't feel like they are popular. I notice them in some airports now as Starbucks has been disappearing from some airports.

For years in NorCal they had 2-3 stores in San Francisco proper; they were corporate operated stores. That was it- no other NorCal locations. One was very well positioned on Market Street, supposedly lost its lease to Peet's (still open there too). Another was over by Fisherman's Wharf and that one wasn't positioned quite as well. I forget where the third was but it ran limited hours. The San Francisco locations used to be excellent; great product, well run, fair prices, back when they were corporate op. Then they sold those San Francisco units to a franchisee and the franchisee was sold the territory in the bay area to expand; they opened some locations scattered around the bay area and many closed quickly; a few did remain for a few years; but ultimately, we see how that worked out- every store is closed and the brand is completely out of the market in NorCal.

I went into the one that was next to the Pleasant Hill Sprouts some years ago when it opened by the franchisee mentioned above and it seemed like the employees didn't know what they were doing, weren't in any kind of uniforms, and the price for the drink was very high. It had no customers. The tea was very watery and clearly not made correctly.

Coffee Bean has a better tea program than Starbucks as they have a larger flavor assortment and will do various flavors of iced tea to order.

They do a high concentrate "brew" using the tea leafs for iced tea then dilute with water/pour over ice.

Nearly all non drive thru locations have closed in SoCal as well. They were acquired by Jollibee several years ago and since then have pushed to get to near 100% franchise and drive thru, but also out of licensing compact locations like grocery stores and airports. You are correct that they have probably half the store count they did before and they are terribly inconsistent now. Most franchise stores I walk into are running with one employee in the afternoons, which when you consider their strongest offering is the Ice Blended it makes no sense to see such bad staffing during busiest hours. This is a brand that is going to have a real problem with Dutch Bros if they don't address quality control. I think their flavor profile is closer to Dutch Bros. Many very new sites were closed in the last few years; some didn't even make it one year. But they do continue to add new stores. In the last month they opened a couple new SoCal locations but unfortunately I can't find the story, it was one of those Instagram stories that expires after 24 hours. They definitely need a better social media presence.

I forgot Jollibee bought them. Also they bought Smashburger some time ago. Doesn't seem like much is happening with that concept either.

I never figured out if the US Jollibee (and Red Ribbon and Chowking) units are corporate units or what- but they all seem to be under the same ownership (not a bunch of different operators) whatever the exact arrangement is.

Absent some heavier marketing I think Coffee Bean may just end up "lost and forgotten" as Dutch Bros., Starbucks, and various independents keep opening more stores and keep making more noise. Also Peet's has a strong following in NorCal.

[veteran+]

What ever happened to Coffee Bean? There used to many inside of Ralphs and a few in the San Francisco Bay Area. Now they seemed to have disappeared from Northern California. Are there a lot still in Southern California?

I always thought of Coffee Bean as having a smaller menu than Starbucks.

There's one down the hill from me across where Tower Records used to be (now a Supreme store).

Great service and great coffee.

The Brentwood store and The Grove (Farmers Market) store are very busy.

Not many stores is an understatement................

[ClownLoach]

Coffee Bean used to have a lot of corporate operated stores, then did a program that refranchised a bunch of corporate stores and it seems like the brand has had some issues since then. I don't notice much in the way of advertising or anything. It doesn't feel like they are popular. I notice them in some airports now as Starbucks has been disappearing from some airports.

For years in NorCal they had 2-3 stores in San Francisco proper; they were corporate operated stores. That was it- no other NorCal locations. One was very well positioned on Market Street, supposedly lost its lease to Peet's (still open there too). Another was over by Fisherman's Wharf and that one wasn't positioned quite as well. I forget where the third was but it ran limited hours. The San Francisco locations used to be excellent; great product, well run, fair prices, back when they were corporate op. Then they sold those San Francisco units to a franchisee and the franchisee was sold the territory in the bay area to expand; they opened some locations scattered around the bay area and many closed quickly; a few did remain for a few years; but ultimately, we see how that worked out- every store is closed and the brand is completely out of the market in NorCal.

I went into the one that was next to the Pleasant Hill Sprouts some years ago when it opened by the franchisee mentioned above and it seemed like the employees didn't know what they were doing, weren't in any kind of uniforms, and the price for the drink was very high. It had no customers. The tea was very watery and clearly not made correctly.

Coffee Bean has a better tea program than Starbucks as they have a larger flavor assortment and will do various flavors of iced tea to order.

They do a high concentrate "brew" using the tea leafs for iced tea then dilute with water/pour over ice.

Nearly all non drive thru locations have closed in SoCal as well. They were acquired by Jollibee several years ago and since then have pushed to get to near 100% franchise and drive thru, but also out of licensing compact locations like grocery stores and airports. You are correct that they have probably half the store count they did before and they are terribly inconsistent now. Most franchise stores I walk into are running with one employee in the afternoons, which when you consider their strongest offering is the Ice Blended it makes no sense to see such bad staffing during busiest hours. This is a brand that is going to have a real problem with Dutch Bros if they don't address quality control. I think their flavor profile is closer to Dutch Bros. Many very new sites were closed in the last few years; some didn't even make it one year. But they do continue to add new stores. In the last month they opened a couple new SoCal locations but unfortunately I can't find the story, it was one of those Instagram stories that expires after 24 hours. They definitely need a better social media presence.

I forgot Jollibee bought them. Also they bought Smashburger some time ago. Doesn't seem like much is happening with that concept either.

I never figured out if the US Jollibee (and Red Ribbon and Chowking) units are corporate units or what- but they all seem to be under the same ownership (not a bunch of different operators) whatever the exact arrangement is.

Absent some heavier marketing I think Coffee Bean may just end up "lost and forgotten" as Dutch Bros., Starbucks, and various independents keep opening more stores and keep making more noise. Also Peet's has a strong following in NorCal.

Jollibee has apparently opened many Coffee Bean locations throughout Asia to great success, but at the expense of totally wasting the US locations.

They might as well sell the US rights to JDE Peet's at this point. Peet's has struggled mightily in SoCal and has probably closed over 75% of their stores. Very few left.

Coffee Bean in the USA is really just a regional SoCal brand and if run well does well. The longer they fail to enforce brand standards and allow crappy franchises to water down their reputation, the more value it will lose. The two would complement each other and could possibly share some menu items.

Also has anyone else mentioned another SF export, Philz Coffee? They are blowing up and have a ton of locations apparently under development in SoCal. They have streamlined their odd operation where it was like paying on the honor system and changed the staffing model. They are a very unique place with only pour over drinks, but their signature Mint Mojito has a huge following. In fact I would not be surprised if Philz outnumbers Coffee Bean soon in SoCal. They're taking over closed Peet's as well, they just converted a Huntington Beach location. BIG cult following like Dutch Bros.

[storewanderer]

Coffee Bean has a small base of Las Vegas locations that seem to be hanging in there. Also some in the airport that have been there forever. These have always been franchises. Airport units are run by I don't know who- but it isn't one of the other airport food service operators and they are leased as "retail" tenants instead of food tenants. Sort of weird situation with those airport Coffee Beans in Las Vegas but that is how they've stayed so long.

Peet's can't seem to get it right outside NorCal.

Philz hardly has any locations. They are selling franchises. They have like 2-3 locations in weird spots in Sacramento. They may have a ton of units under development but let's see how many of those actually open. Coffee Bean had 30-50 units under development in NorCal and we see how many opened (less than 10) and how many are still open (big zero).

Also I didn't find the ordering system at Philz terribly unusual? I can think of a number of places I go where this type of system is used where you tell one person your order who makes it, then go to a cashier and tell them what you just ordered as the other person is making it... Jersey Mike's not busy and with only 2 employees working and an order that is hot comes to mind (sometimes they have enough employees or enough backlog of orders that it doesn't work like that and by the time you get to the cashier your sandwich is done/wrapped up).

If you want stupid ordering systems look no further than Einstein Bagels. You order at one side of the line and there is a register there. Then you get told to go down to the cashier to pay. You pay and even though your order is saved they go over it with you again. Then you pay and if you have soda/plain coffee/plain tea you get a cup and get to go fill it yourself. And then you stand around and wait. For a while.. and are given your food. If you ordered any employee made drinks at this point you have to ask about those and then they go over your order with you again and someone decides to prepare your drink.

It is important to note Dutch Bros. is doing most/all of the recent expansion as corporate units. While they were franchising in the past and do still have some franchise units, that isn't the model they are using for this expansion and there aren't many franchise units left. I think that is a significant development. And so far they seem to follow through with unit growth promises they make.

[ClownLoach]

Coffee Bean has a small base of Las Vegas locations that seem to be hanging in there. Also some in the airport that have been there forever. These have always been franchises. Airport units are run by I don't know who- but it isn't one of the other airport food service operators and they are leased as "retail" tenants instead of food tenants. Sort of weird situation with those airport Coffee Beans in Las Vegas but that is how they've stayed so long.

Peet's can't seem to get it right outside NorCal.

Philz hardly has any locations. They are selling franchises. They have like 2-3 locations in weird spots in Sacramento. They may have a ton of units under development but let's see how many of those actually open. Coffee Bean had 30-50 units under development in NorCal and we see how many opened (less than 10) and how many are still open (big zero).

Also I didn't find the ordering system at Philz terribly unusual? I can think of a number of places I go where this type of system is used where you tell one person your order who makes it, then go to a cashier and tell them what you just ordered as the other person is making it... Jersey Mike's not busy and with only 2 employees working and an order that is hot comes to mind (sometimes they have enough employees or enough backlog of orders that it doesn't work like that and by the time you get to the cashier your sandwich is done/wrapped up).

If you want stupid ordering systems look no further than Einstein Bagels. You order at one side of the line and there is a register there. Then you get told to go down to the cashier to pay. You pay and even though your order is saved they go over it with you again. Then you pay and if you have soda/plain coffee/plain tea you get a cup and get to go fill it yourself. And then you stand around and wait. For a while.. and are given your food. If you ordered any employee made drinks at this point you have to ask about those and then they go over your order with you again and someone decides to prepare your drink.

It is important to note Dutch Bros. is doing most/all of the recent expansion as corporate units. While they were franchising in the past and do still have some franchise units, that isn't the model they are using for this expansion and there aren't many franchise units left. I think that is a significant development. And so far they seem to follow through with unit growth promises they make.

Philz is not a franchise and all stores are company owned. I called a store to verify as there are many roboarticles written by AI scrapers reporting gibberish with wacky prices that make no sense. They had just over 70 locations but closed two (original in SF and one in Santa Monica which I believe was due to a redevelopment). They have passed two dozen in SoCal and more on the way. Their newer design is more compact and a better fit for an inline or endcap location in strip malls. It appears to be engineered for a much lower build out cost as well.

Franchises in general are struggling. The entire model does not work when there are regional pockets of hot inflation and labor issues. In-N-Out is probably a good example as they didn't need to raise the prices of burgers substantially due to the California labor cost increase... They raised the prices everywhere and as a result the impact is spread across almost 400 locations of which almost half are out of state. This spreading out the cost helps especially when certain items are on the cusp of passing psychological barriers, such as when an item is at $1.95 and it is perceived that moving to $2 or more will cause a decrease in sales. Local franchise owners don't have this option, and larger corporations that own several hundred units in chains usually have them concentrated in a limited number of geographic areas thus also preventing them from spreading out the costs. I am not saying that it is necessarily fair for everyone to see their burger go up 25¢ because of the California decision to raise wages, but it isn't necessarily fair for the Californians to see the same burger go up $2 either. At this point I strongly believe that these corporations should be running their own restaurants as it appears that company owned units better maintain pricing than franchises.