Over-expansion of Sprouts and Smart & Final in CA

[storewanderer]

Anyone else think these two chains are expanding way too fast and doing some odd things? Some of the new locations will do fine but I am not so sure as a whole, especially about Smart & Final. I don't really like Smart & Final to begin with though.

The new Smart & Final Extra Stores are nearly identical on merchandising to the "SmartCo Foods" concept that failed in Colorado. Same old thing but added in bulk foods and some roasted chicken. I am not sure what makes them think the concept will be so successful to justify such a wildfire-like expansion.

Smart & Final appears to be doing little to the stores it got from Haggen.
http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/smart-an ... jO_N5B2RHw

Customers in Paso Robles where two previous conventionals (Vons and Scolaris) got eaten by Smart and Final do not seem to be overly happy with the situation there based on the Yelp reviews (the only conventional left is Albertsons; I am sure THEY are very happy).

Yesterday, I was in a brand new Sprouts in Roseville (former The Fresh Market, but they completely gutted it) yesterday afternoon and the store was nearly deserted. Peaches 4lbs/$1 were not a draw. UFCW had 3 informational individuals out front holding large strike-like signs advising that the store is not union and they approached me on the way in and on the way out and kept trying to give me a piece of paper describing why I should not shop at Sprouts. This is the first Sprouts I have seen UFCW target. Sprouts as it is with its other Roseville store only does marginal business, and the nearby Citrus Heights Sprouts never seems terribly busy when I go in either. Sprouts seems very busy in Sacramento (former Sunflower) and Elk Grove (former Henrys). The other funny thing is Sprouts had a former Sunflower in Roseville about a mile from this new store they just opened which did quite well but they opted not to keep (it was in a shopping center with a Trader Joes and there was a ton of cross shopping going on between the two). I like Sprouts and think the concept has a lot of potential but think they may be expanding too fast.

Nearby in Citrus Heights is a new build from scratch Smart & Final Extra at a VERY busy intersection. The store is nice enough but it has little traffic. It has a lower priced ad than other surrounding locations but that still doesn't seem to be drawing in many customers. Smart & Final Extra also opened another new store less than 10 minutes down the road from this in a slice of a former Kmart; that one looks to be doing a little more business however I can't help but think they are over-expanding.

[klkla]

I've never seen a high volume Smart & Final. They must have great margins and low labor costs to make it work.

OTOH all the Sprouts I've seen here in LA area are very busy. I think the 365 by Whole Foods concept is a direct response to Sprouts although they haven't said as much publicly that I am aware of. There's definitely a perception among Sprouts shoppers here that they are getting the same quality as Whole Foods but at a lower price.

[pseudo3d]

I wouldn't start worrying about Smart & Final Extra! too much. The SmartCo stores may have had a similar merchandise mix, but I think that it's different because of two reasons.

Less important: "Different names in different markets" are hit and miss if you're trying to expand organically. In fact, maybe miss altogether, and that's why the phenomenon is so rare (another example: "Florida Choice" for Kroger). How many times has a retailer done well in a different (distant) market with a different name that WASN'T pre-existing?

More important: Smart & Final understands SoCal shoppers, less so for Colorado shoppers.

[storewanderer]

A lot of this expansion is in places other than SoCal (most of the stores I am referring to are in NorCal or Central California). NorCal, SoCal, and Central California are fairly distinct different markets. It is quite a bit like Texas really.

I really don't think Sprouts offers Whole Foods quality. Maybe I am wrong. My experiences don't even make me think Sprouts quality is as good as Safeway... but perhaps better than a discount store like WinCo or Wal Mart. But I too have heard that perception. What I like about Sprouts is that it is small and easy to get through and the layout is easy to "move through."

[lake]

Yesterday, I was in a brand new Sprouts in Roseville (former The Fresh Market, but they completely gutted it) yesterday afternoon and the store was nearly deserted. Peaches 4lbs/$1 were not a draw. UFCW had 3 informational individuals out front holding large strike-like signs advising that the store is not union and they approached me on the way in and on the way out and kept trying to give me a piece of paper describing why I should not shop at Sprouts. This is the first Sprouts I have seen UFCW target. Sprouts as it is with its other Roseville store only does marginal business, and the nearby Citrus Heights Sprouts never seems terribly busy when I go in either. Sprouts seems very busy in Sacramento (former Sunflower) and Elk Grove (former Henrys). The other funny thing is Sprouts had a former Sunflower in Roseville about a mile from this new store they just opened which did quite well but they opted not to keep (it was in a shopping center with a Trader Joes and there was a ton of cross shopping going on between the two). I like Sprouts and think the concept has a lot of potential but think they may be expanding too fast.

So yeah I have quite a few points to make here-
-The Sprouts on Douglas is absolutely dead most of the time. I actually think that The Fresh Market was busier. That shopping center has a really strong tenant mix and did just fine without an anchor for so many years (after Borders and after TFM) so I wonder what is keeping people away.
-UFCW has it's NorCal headquarters one block down Professional Drive from this location, they are very active in Roseville and especially on the Douglas corridor.
-The other Sprouts in Roseville is in a terrible location, there is absolutely no residential within a good distance of the property. To make matters worse it is surrounded by Whole Foods, Winco, Nugget, Walmart, and Bel Air all in very close proximity. It is always quiet, although busier than the Douglas location.
-The thing that perplexes me about the Douglas location is that it is actually in a pretty good spot. It is surrounded by pretty much all spectrums of income and is on the very sought after Douglas Corridor. However, for whatever reason it is just not working out so far, in fact the middle of the road Raley's across the street has actually gotten busier since it opened. The only thing I can think of is that the market in that area is so diluted that Sprouts was just too late to the game. There is a busy Target, middle ground Raley's, busy Safeway, busy 99 Cent Store, decent Grocery Outlet, busy Bel Air, decent Safeway, brand new Smart and Final, and two slower Walmarts all within a 2 mile radius of the new store. It may just not be offering anything new enough to entice people to move from the already abundant choices they have.
-The thing about the two other locations in the area (Sunrise and Five Star) is that they are both in major commercial shopping areas that have high traffic and are almost entirely commercial. This makes these locations very inconvenient to get to and therefore scare away a lot of customers. Personally, I may see a good price at Sprouts and go in to get that specific (likely loss leading) item but then do almost all other shopping elsewhere. I never think of Sprouts unless their circular arrives in the mail with a "Wow" price on it. Those two locations just aren't special or convenient enough for me to make them a frequent stop of mine.

[veteran+]

Anyone else think these two chains are expanding way too fast and doing some odd things? Some of the new locations will do fine but I am not so sure as a whole, especially about Smart & Final. I don't really like Smart & Final to begin with though.

The new Smart & Final Extra Stores are nearly identical on merchandising to the "SmartCo Foods" concept that failed in Colorado. Same old thing but added in bulk foods and some roasted chicken. I am not sure what makes them think the concept will be so successful to justify such a wildfire-like expansion.

Smart & Final appears to be doing little to the stores it got from Haggen.
http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/smart-an ... jO_N5B2RHw

Customers in Paso Robles where two previous conventionals (Vons and Scolaris) got eaten by Smart and Final do not seem to be overly happy with the situation there based on the Yelp reviews (the only conventional left is Albertsons; I am sure THEY are very happy).

Yesterday, I was in a brand new Sprouts in Roseville (former The Fresh Market, but they completely gutted it) yesterday afternoon and the store was nearly deserted. Peaches 4lbs/$1 were not a draw. UFCW had 3 informational individuals out front holding large strike-like signs advising that the store is not union and they approached me on the way in and on the way out and kept trying to give me a piece of paper describing why I should not shop at Sprouts. This is the first Sprouts I have seen UFCW target. Sprouts as it is with its other Roseville store only does marginal business, and the nearby Citrus Heights Sprouts never seems terribly busy when I go in either. Sprouts seems very busy in Sacramento (former Sunflower) and Elk Grove (former Henrys). The other funny thing is Sprouts had a former Sunflower in Roseville about a mile from this new store they just opened which did quite well but they opted not to keep (it was in a shopping center with a Trader Joes and there was a ton of cross shopping going on between the two). I like Sprouts and think the concept has a lot of potential but think they may be expanding too fast.

Nearby in Citrus Heights is a new build from scratch Smart & Final Extra at a VERY busy intersection. The store is nice enough but it has little traffic. It has a lower priced ad than other surrounding locations but that still doesn't seem to be drawing in many customers. Smart & Final Extra also opened another new store less than 10 minutes down the road from this in a slice of a former Kmart; that one looks to be doing a little more business however I can't help but think they are over-expanding.

Categorically spot on about Smart & Final. Over expansion and several wrong locations! And btw..........can't stand that store as well (maybe if I owned a restaurant for emergency purchases).

I'm not sure about over expansion issues with Sprouts but location choices are sometimes questionable. One weird choice comes to mind and that is a Sprouts in Hemet Ca. (YUK!!!!!!) and no store in Palm Springs, Palm Desert, Rancho Mirage or even Indian Wells? That is weird.

[CalItalian]

New Smart & Final Extra's in Torrance and (2) Redondo Beach are very busy (all 3 former Albertsons/Haggen). They get good to great reviews and the Torrance location is my favorite Smart & Final Extra of all locations. All 3, especially Torrance, were in good shape as Albertsons/Haggens. Surprising but the fresh sushi is a big hit at the Torrance location.
https://www.yelp.com/biz/smart-and-fina ... =date_desc
https://www.yelp.com/biz/smart-and-fina ... =date_desc
https://www.yelp.com/biz/smart-and-fina ... =date_desc

[J-Man]

The Smart & Final that replaced the Ralphs in Duarte opened a couple of weeks ago; I made it there for the first time on Friday. They downsized the Ralphs (the extra space is going to become a Harbor Freight.) And of course there's no deli, bakery, or pharmacy. The store seemed pretty much the same as the one in San Dimas (also a former Ralphs.) They were more than a little understocked-- they were out of several items (not even sale items) that I was looking for. I guess it's nice to finally have another supermarket in town (since Ralphs, Albertsons-Monrovia, Mike's Food (soon to be a Grocery Outlet), and Fresh and Easy have all closed in the last couple of years. But I think I'll be finding myself going to Pavilions or Sprouts (and definitely Aldi) more often than Smart and Final.

[rvt]

Regarding the Smart and Final in Trabuco Canyon/Rancho Santa Margarita: It appears to have settled into about the same amount of business as Albertsons was doing-moderate. Usually a couple checkers open, occasionally I've seen three. It is far busier than Haggen. There are occasional big cartloads of food and supplies going out. I've seen organizations such as scouts shopping there for an outing. Appears to appeal to wide range of demographics though looks can be deceiving. They have bakery-reviews are incorrect on this. My own impression: OK (but not exciting), decent enough for a quick run to the store and it is convenient to my house and to get in and out of the lot. Employees have been courteous. As I've probably posted before on this board, out of Lucky, Albertsons under various ownerships, Haggen, and now Smart and Final- probably Lucky was the most successful.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/smart-and-final ... o-canyon-2

[storewanderer]

Lucky was the best operator and knew what they were doing. Smart & Final seems to be a "last resort" store taking spaces over and running these bare bones stores with little labor, highish prices, and a strange product mix. I think Smart & Final is an expert at shrink. There is little fresh product. The drug area is almost non-existent (high theft items for most conventionals especially in SoCal). Not many employees and at the same time not a format that needs many employees. Shorter store hours than average. I am starting to understand how this is successful.