Nordstrom, Saks Off 5th Closing San Francisco

[ClownLoach]

Here we go again. Nordstrom is closing their massive San Francisco location at Westfield San Francisco Centre along with the nearby Rack store. Saks is also closing their Off 5th location. Article contains obligatory theft discussion.

https://sfist.com/2023/05/02/nordstrom- ... is-summer/

[storewanderer]

Ross is already moving into the Saks Off 5th space. I'm not sure how much of a loss Saks Off 5th is. It appears Ross is relocating from some other space.

Also it appears a standard Saks Fifth Avenue is still open in San Francisco?

Whether or not one thinks Nordstrom Rack is a big loss is up for debate.

Nordstrom on the other hand, is a rather big loss. A solid anchor tenant that also draws various other upscale retailers. A giant Nordstrom Store (larger than the other surrounding ones by far). Maybe it didn't have foot traffic anymore to support its product mix. But they could have downsized... The Westfield (I thought they were leaving the US) complex where the Nordstrom is located is a very nice complex and I don't think this closure is good news for that complex. Bloomingdale's is still down there.

The two Nordstrom closures are a sign that Nordstrom Corporation is fed up and done with San Francisco. Things are obviously much worse for retailers in that city than I think they are.

[babs]

The question to ask...is downtown retailing dead? It sure seems to be dying everywhere outside NYC.

[ClownLoach]

Ross is already moving into the Saks Off 5th space. I'm not sure how much of a loss Saks Off 5th is. It appears Ross is relocating from some other space.

Also it appears a standard Saks Fifth Avenue is still open in San Francisco?

Whether or not one thinks Nordstrom Rack is a big loss is up for debate.

Nordstrom on the other hand, is a rather big loss. A solid anchor tenant that also draws various other upscale retailers. A giant Nordstrom Store (larger than the other surrounding ones by far). Maybe it didn't have foot traffic anymore to support its product mix. But they could have downsized... The Westfield (I thought they were leaving the US) complex where the Nordstrom is located is a very nice complex and I don't think this closure is good news for that complex. Bloomingdale's is still down there.

The two Nordstrom closures are a sign that Nordstrom Corporation is fed up and done with San Francisco. Things are obviously much worse for retailers in that city than I think they are.

Westfield seems to be very opportunistic. They're seemingly not in any hurry at all. They remain very actively involved in management of their properties and continue to not just do the basics but actively invest in growing them. They've been buying and selling properties for quite some time. They're like a long term flipper. They aren't going to sell anything at a fire sale price. They'll probably still own some properties here in another decade. Their statement that they're leaving the US is very misleading and I expect them to walk it back as less affluent landlords begin to struggle with the tough interest rates. Westfield will see deals they can't refuse and buy more, I guarantee it. Heck they just started doing their own apartments with that giant tower down at UTC San Diego, and now they're redeveloping the old Nordstrom wing (they finally tore it down a few months ago, and it is unrelated to the adjacent former Sears which is a Seritage project). They're also good at finding just the right buyer for each individual property. They unloaded their Escondido, CA property to a local ownership group who recognizes the rapid growth of the area and the reality that it will soon be the only enclosed mall in North SD County once Carlsbad is redeveloped and becomes mostly apartments. They'll unload dump properties on bottom feeders when the time comes, but as long as it turns a profit then why not hold onto it? And if it's really bad then why not start the legwork on a more profitable redevelopment into other uses?

As far as Nordstrom goes, that really does send a message to the others in the area. I can't imagine that Macy's isn't also looking at how they can pull off the once inconceivable closing of the rest of their Union Square property. Will Target now finally give up? Saying Ross is coming to take the Off 5th property is about the equivalent of 7-Eleven replacing the closed Bristol Farms there. This is beyond the canary in the coal mine for San Francisco.

I am not entirely sure about the national status of Downtown retailing. In these West Coast cities with rampant crime and homelessness, it seems to be dying and quick. I think we need more data than just the anecdotal concept of less people returning to offices. I don't believe that is the only factor, I think crime and homelessness concerns amplify the problem of declining traffic. My hypothesis is that the cities with the most crime/homelessness are seeing a much more rapid deterioration of Downtown shopping environments. Downtowns had died out long ago as suburban malls took over, then the trend of reinvesting in urban downtowns the last 20 years brought back some of the retail that had left, but now those openings are proving to be problematic.

[storewanderer]

The question to ask...is downtown retailing dead? It sure seems to be dying everywhere outside NYC.

Downtown retailing was dying in the 80's, 90's and hit a resurgence of sorts in the 2010's.

But Union Square in San Francisco was a place where downtown retail never died. It constantly had these big stores, flagship stores, stores constantly getting remodeled/expanded, and a tourist attraction for regional visitors and international visitors. Really I consider what is going on here to be a big loss for retail in general. Historically there have been some really great stores in Union Square, excellent representations for specific brands/chains. It is a big loss to lose these not just for that city but for retail at large.

That entire failed "shops" idea that the old Ron Johnson had at JCP came out of the now-closed (they sold the building to a residential developer as I recall) San Francisco Union Square Men's Macy's where they segmented out a few of the various floors into little shop type spaces for various brands with unique decor, lighting, shelving, dedicated staff, etc.

But it seems to be dying now...

Downtown retailing seems to be dying in a lot of cities because people do not want to go to the downtowns anymore.

[marshd1000]

We all know that brick and mortar retail is having problems. I don’t that that it will totally go away. Sure, online has killed off some of the weaker players and locations. I do think that of theft and remote office work has a lot to do with closures in downtowns! It is unfortunate to see this happen to San Francisco as it had a very wonderful downtown shopping experience! I was recently at the Downtown Portland Nordstrom and a clerk said that they were doing ok as they had a great security company protect them. I hope she’s right! But it wouldn’t surprise me if both Downtown Portland and the Downtown Seattle Nordstrom flagship closed. I hope it doesn’t come to pass!

[ClownLoach]

We all know that brick and mortar retail is having problems. I don’t that that it will totally go away. Sure, online has killed off some of the weaker players and locations. I do think that of theft and remote office work has a lot to do with closures in downtowns! It is unfortunate to see this happen to San Francisco as it had a very wonderful downtown shopping experience! I was recently at the Downtown Portland Nordstrom and a clerk said that they were doing ok as they had a great security company protect them. I hope she’s right! But it wouldn’t surprise me if both Downtown Portland and the Downtown Seattle Nordstrom flagship closed. I hope it doesn’t come to pass!

What keeps the downtown Seattle location going is that the headquarters is above it. But if I recall correctly the Nordstrom family owns the building, so if they ever get desperate enough for cash I am sure someone would gladly take it off their hands and leave them with plenty of money to go rent some space in the suburbs.

[Alpha8472]

Nordstrom closed a store in rich upper middle class Pleasanton, California a few years ago. I have no idea why as the mall is pretty busy and crime is very low in the suburbs. They gave up a good store for no reason other than slightly lower than expected sales. Nordstrom is seriously mismanaged.

[ClownLoach]

Nordstrom closed a store in rich upper middle class Pleasanton, California a few years ago. I have idea why as the mall is pretty busy and crime is very low in the suburbs. They gave up a good store for no reason other than slightly lower than expected sales. Nordstrom is seriously mismanaged.

Based on the drastic deterioration of their product assortment I'd have to agree. They are the opposite of what made Nordstrom what it was. Generic merchandise that is identical between locations. Very empty stores with way too much open floor space.

I've mentioned before that Nordstrom seemed to have a magical back room. If you found something you were interested in they always had your size available in the store to take home immediately. Now they can't even maintain sizing or color assortment online or in store.

[storewanderer]

Seems like Nordstrom is lost.

It appears Dillard's is the final quality department store chain on a national level.