Coronavirus and Plastic Bag Bans

[klkla]

That is odd. I've never had any damage to perishables in all of my shopping. I use self checkout often when it is available but some stores I go to, do not have self checkout, and I have never had damaged perishables... worst I've had is the paper milk carton flat and tipped the wrong way so it leaks.

But I've sure seen a lot of perishables getting damaged by cashiers in CA Stores where they are trying to stuff everything into a single bag to avoid an additional bag fee. I guess that is a CA problem. Better for the customer to control the bagging process in that case. Rather than stuff everything into a single bag it may be best to keep some meat or produce outside the bag entirely. That also potentially helps reusable bag cleanliness.

The problem isn't because of everything being stuffed inside one bag. The problem is that the chains don't train their new employees anymore and they don't know what they are doing.

You're lucky you've rarely had this happen to you. I would say it happens more times than not if I don't actively monitor what they are doing.

[storewanderer]

The problem isn't because of everything being stuffed inside one bag. The problem is that the chains don't train their new employees anymore and they don't know what they are doing.

You're lucky you've rarely had this happen to you. I would say it happens more times than not if I don't actively monitor what they are doing.

Well, in CA (prior to this past March) I frequently saw things stuffed into one bag for customers ahead of me and would shake my head at what I saw. For instance I'd see things like produce and cans/boxes together at the bottom of the bag, then some chips and milk or bagged items, then some eggs, then some bread on the top overflowing on the bag (meaning it will be squeezed when the bag is carried from the top, and probably fall out if the bag is carried from the bottom).

The other side of this where bags are not being charged for is they use more bags as a result of poor bagging in order to protect the product. The frequent customer complaints that there are only 2-3 items in each bag are a trade off for the customer complaint that items are being damaged due to improper bagging. If the employees were trained better it would not be an issue. Another problem is how many front ends do the "scan item then immediately bag item" thing. This means they bag stuff in the order it comes down the belt. And that is inherently the wrong order. If you unload your cart it is very likely you have things that are crushable on the top of the cart, and those go straight into the bags as they are scanned (unless you withhold those items), then the more solid items which should be bagged first go down the belt last. In a store that scans all items totals it then bags all items they can size up the transaction and hopefully bag appropriately. I can tell you Raleys in NorCal absolutely trains its baggers how to bag properly and so does Trader Joe's but there is a lot of customer pressure over getting everything into one bag to avoid additional bag fees. I don't think anyone else does. I don't think the other chains train it.

[veteran+]

Baggers don't know how to bag anyway!

So true! Luckily I'm a fast bagger. I actually prefer it this way. There's a lot less damage to my perishables.

That is odd. I've never had any damage to perishables in all of my shopping. I use self checkout often when it is available but some stores I go to, do not have self checkout, and I have never had damaged perishables... worst I've had is the paper milk carton flat and tipped the wrong way so it leaks.

But I've sure seen a lot of perishables getting damaged by cashiers in CA Stores where they are trying to stuff everything into a single bag to avoid an additional bag fee. I guess that is a CA problem. Better for the customer to control the bagging process in that case. Rather than stuff everything into a single bag it may be best to keep some meat or produce outside the bag entirely. That also potentially helps reusable bag cleanliness.

You have been very lucky with no damage.

I have lived and worked in several states, shopping at and working in grocery stores.

I have asked baggers to do certain things and TRAINED baggers to do certain things...............to no avail.

1. Don't mix refrigerated and frozen with dry goods. Keep produce separate. Don't mix non foods with food.
2. Fill bags proportionate to weight.
3. Frame bottom of bags to efficiently fill
4. Hard stuff on bottom, soft stuff on top.

They don't listen.............lol. Windex with frozen peas. Yogurt with heated deli item. Bread crushed.

The list is endless and the wasteful use of any type bag is a joke.

So, you have been lucky!

lol

[storewanderer]

I have asked baggers to do certain things and TRAINED baggers to do certain things...............to no avail.

1. Don't mix refrigerated and frozen with dry goods. Keep produce separate. Don't mix non foods with food.
2. Fill bags proportionate to weight.
3. Frame bottom of bags to efficiently fill
4. Hard stuff on bottom, soft stuff on top.

They don't listen.............lol. Windex with frozen peas. Yogurt with heated deli item. Bread crushed.

That is all pretty bad. But when everything needs to be squeezed into a single 10 cent bag or a single reusable bag I see this stuff happen. The bagging for extremely sloppy with reusable bags squeezing anything and everything together into as few bags as possible.

The reality is when you have this transaction:
1. Hot food
2. Liquid or powder cleaning chemical
3. Frozen anything
4. Bananas (or any soft fruit like a nectarine, etc.)
5. Ground Beef (or any meat item in plastic/foam tray with plastic wrap on top)

It probably (absolutely...) should not all go into the same bag... but most people don't want 5 bags. Most people don't bring 5 reusable bags for this kind of small shop. You could isolate the hot food and cleaning into separate bags then for 3-4 put them into small bags then into a single bag...

Or I can take that above transaction and just carry it out of the store, no bag at all... or get a shallow flat box like what pet food cans show up in, certain bottled drinks, etc., and carry it out like it is all on a tray (which would work to get it out of the store, there would be space between the items- hopefully no moisture from the hot food or frozen food to make the box fall apart in transit)...

Briefly in the mid 90's some or all Raleys banned plastic bags and went back to 100% paper bags after not even having plastic bags long in the first place since they were kind of new back then- this was when they started to sell the canvas bags as well with a 5 cent use reward. That initial ban on plastic bags didn't last long. First the plastic bags with handles came back in limited supply but only for frozen foods, meat, etc. The plastic bags were on a hook under the cashier's scanner (not down where the bagger was) and only to be used for those items. Other orders and all other items were to be bagged in paper. But it wasn't long before the plastic bags were back again as an option for all bagging. However back then Raleys also did something else most others did not do: they had paper bags with handles on them (to offer the convenience in lifting that a plastic bag had). Customer preference, efficiency, and I am sure costs ultimately drove them to bring the plastic bags back.

[klkla]

That is all pretty bad. But when everything needs to be squeezed into a single 10 cent bag or a single reusable bag I see this stuff happen

You have got to move on from this. This has NOTHING to do with squeezing things into one bag. It's basic employee training and management supervision (or lack thereof) that is causing the problem.

[storewanderer]

That is all pretty bad. But when everything needs to be squeezed into a single 10 cent bag or a single reusable bag I see this stuff happen

You have got to move on from this. This has NOTHING to do with squeezing things into one bag. It's basic employee training and management supervision (or lack thereof) that is causing the problem.

Yes, in places where there is no bag fee in place and the employees are free to properly separate items that should be separated and opt not to do so, it is a training and management issue.

However, where there is a bag fee in place, when the customer says "put it all in one bag" - due to the bag fee and not wanting to pay for multiple bags... this is what they get. The employees are conditioned to fill the bags as full as possible due to customers not wanting to pay for excess bags. Also don't forget that single super thick plastic bag the customer is paying for, uses more plastic than 5+ thin bags would use...

Employees get used to customers wanting to pay for as few bags as possible and this is the end result. Go observe a front end regular size order (not express) lanes in a busy Vons or Ralphs once they start accepting reusable bags on the counter again and once the bag fees start being seriously enforced again and you will see exactly what I mean.

[veteran+]

Frankly speaking................I really don't think most people care about how much they are being charged for any kind of bag.

I think that's kinda dumb but I have never witnessed anyone making a fuss about it, not my friends not my family not my partners or roommates and not strangers.

I refuse to pay anything for any bag and take appropriate measures to avoid being charged. Rarely do I ever end up paying for anything.

BTW...............I will NOT go with that ridiculous BOX alternative, not my thing. I could see that working if you have a car large enough for that nonsense AND a good size house to store those boxes (hopefully WITHOUT attracting all known pests of all species). And, if you purchase enough merchandise at one time where it makes sense.

I think for some reason you have HUGE issues about this and I get that some of them are quite important. But..........the REAL solution (sustainable and biodegradable.......not sourced to disrupt eco systems) does not have enough support from any of those involved.

[storewanderer]

the REAL solution (sustainable and biodegradable.......not sourced to disrupt eco systems) does not have enough support from any of those involved.

We can agree on that part.

This wasn't much of an issue until things start getting screwed up and regulated. Typical old cat and mouse game. Environmentalists want to cut out plastic and want everyone to use cloth bags- so ban plastic bags. Sounded simple enough. Plastic bag industry comes out with "hand wash only" super thick "reusable" 10 cent bags and also comes out with "hand wash only" actual reusable plastic/flock lined with a fabric handle (and 100% non-recyclable) bags that cost way less to produce than the cloth bags to the point very few retailers offer cloth bags for sale.

[mbz321]

Somehow people survived taking their groceries home before plastic bags were a thing. I don't see why this topic gets beaten to death over and over again on here, it's really just ridiculous at this point I'm guessing storewanderer has stocks in the plastic industry.

[storewanderer]

Somehow people survived taking their groceries home before plastic bags were a thing. I don't see why this topic gets beaten to death over and over again on here, it's really just ridiculous at this point I'm guessing storewanderer has stocks in the plastic industry.

Until you spend significant time in stores that are under a Government mandated bag fee/Government mandated forced super thick plastic bag scenario, you may want to wait to formulate an opinion. Since COVID, the current situation where people are forced to pay for super thick bags and are not using reusable bags much is a huge win for the plastic industry. The losers are the customers and the environment.

I have determined the best thing to do is just pay the bag fee for the super thick bags when that is what is offered. I am getting 6x more plastic in every single bag than I need and wasting 10 cents, but for a variety of reasons at this point in time it is the best thing to do. Before COVID under these circumstances I usually just went without a bag.