Washington trying again to ban plastic bags

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TW-Upstate NY
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Re: Washington trying again to ban plastic bags

Post by TW-Upstate NY »

storewanderer wrote: December 22nd, 2020, 6:42 pm However you can ask them at pick up to unload all of the items into your vehicle without bags and then no bag fee would be assessed.
I'd be curious to know this-suppose a customer made an online order and did not indicate a preference such as this and when they go to pick it up everything is bagged? Could they ask their order be UN-bagged and not get charged a bag fee? Taking this further, if their order is unbagged in this manner then what happens to those bags? Would the store dispose of them or try to reuse them for another customer's online order? I wouldn't feel very comfortable as a customer getting used bags not only from a sanitary standpoint but if I'm going to have to pay for bags I want them to be brand new. Personally today, unless someone is incredibly cheap, I would not want my groceries unbagged because that means someone other than myself or a member of my household has to handle those items again. Then say you brought your own bags-that means you have to handle those items again at the store and then again when you get home. And unless you have a huge order, what's a bag fee going to set somebody back? Even if someone had say ten bags that's what-maybe fifty cents to a dollar or so? I really don't see how that would be worth the hassle of it all.
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Re: Washington trying again to ban plastic bags

Post by storewanderer »

TW-Upstate NY wrote: December 23rd, 2020, 10:21 am
storewanderer wrote: December 22nd, 2020, 6:42 pm However you can ask them at pick up to unload all of the items into your vehicle without bags and then no bag fee would be assessed.
I'd be curious to know this-suppose a customer made an online order and did not indicate a preference such as this and when they go to pick it up everything is bagged? Could they ask their order be UN-bagged and not get charged a bag fee? Taking this further, if their order is unbagged in this manner then what happens to those bags? Would the store dispose of them or try to reuse them for another customer's online order? I wouldn't feel very comfortable as a customer getting used bags not only from a sanitary standpoint but if I'm going to have to pay for bags I want them to be brand new. Personally today, unless someone is incredibly cheap, I would not want my groceries unbagged because that means someone other than myself or a member of my household has to handle those items again. Then say you brought your own bags-that means you have to handle those items again at the store and then again when you get home. And unless you have a huge order, what's a bag fee going to set somebody back? Even if someone had say ten bags that's what-maybe fifty cents to a dollar or so? I really don't see how that would be worth the hassle of it all.
That is how it works- if someone wants to use their own bags, then the order gets un-bagged at the point of pick up and the bag fee is credited.

Some stores (Safeway, Kroger, etc.) put the items into bags then into plastic crates for storage until you pick up and put your name/pick up info on a label that is on the plastic crate. Some stores seem to just store the bags loose or on a shelf (Target) with stickers on the bags for the individual order.

Target does re-use the bags as I have done pick up orders there where the sticker on the pick up bag with my name/phone number is put over a sticker that had someone else's name/phone number.

In many parts of San Francisco area (San Mateo county, San Francisco city, and some scattered others) the bag fee is 25 cents per bag. The fee increase is to encourage more people to use reusable bags. It just went up July 1 in San Francisco. So this adds up. The point with these fees is to keep people from taking the bags. A 10 cent fee is a nominal fee like you point out- for 5 bags, a 50 cent fee- most people are not going to care. But a 25 cent fee, so now $1.25, maybe someone will care and not want to pay it and refuse the bags. And if not then you just keep putting the fee higher until it gets people to quit taking the bags. That is the reasoning behind the folks who implement and promote these bag bans. They do not want anyone using disposable bags. Reusable bags only. Move the fee up until the desired behavior is achieved.
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Re: Washington trying again to ban plastic bags

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I was in my local Target store yesterday, and they have "corporate printed" signs all over the front end about the new bag fees. Apparently somebody did not get the memo about the delay. For what it's worth, the self-checkout did not ask about bags, so I wasn't charged. This speaks more to Target being out of touch with some of its stores on the local level than anything.
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Re: Washington trying again to ban plastic bags

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Haven't been in the local Target since probably before Thanksgiving but at the time they were still not charging for bags. Don't know if that's changed since but they were eating the cost up to that point. And of all the stores, their bags are probably the most durable and sturdy ones around. They actually have handles which make it so much easier to carry out of the store vs. the standard issue paper bags you get at most supermarkets locally.
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Re: Washington trying again to ban plastic bags

Post by storewanderer »

In WA there is legislation pending to delay the bag ban until at least July 1, 2021, but at the option of the governor, until as late as January 1, 2022.

Then, there is also in addition to that, something written into the law allowing stores to use previously purchased thin plastic bags, for up to one year after the law is implemented.

Also WA law even after bag ban goes into effect allows compostable plastic bags to be distributed free of charge (those are not banned, as I thought before)... will be interesting to see if any chain picks up on that better for the environment and sanitary/customer friendly option or they are happy to throw the super thick bags with a bag fee at the customer.
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Re: Washington trying again to ban plastic bags

Post by BillyGr »

TW-Upstate NY wrote: January 9th, 2021, 8:51 am Haven't been in the local Target since probably before Thanksgiving but at the time they were still not charging for bags. Don't know if that's changed since but they were eating the cost up to that point. And of all the stores, their bags are probably the most durable and sturdy ones around. They actually have handles which make it so much easier to carry out of the store vs. the standard issue paper bags you get at most supermarkets locally.
Remember that the NY rules don't require a fee unless the county/area opts in to it, and so far it's fairly limited (5 counties that make up NYC, Suffolk, Tompkins and Albany, plus the cities of Troy and White Plains). Many stores outside those areas still choose to charge their own fee (which they can, just as Aldi has for years as you mentioned in that post) but they don't have to do so.
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Re: Washington trying again to ban plastic bags

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As I type this, the bag ban is expected to take place on 10/1/21. I am seeing a few instances of stores running out of bags, most notably Walmart which had NO bags of any kind to offer a couple days ago....the whole front end had none, not even the reusable ones. I have seen a few stores shifting to paper, and have heard of at least one already trying to charge the bag fees.

I also question this as Covid cases locally are at their highest levels ever, and people are going to bring their dirty bags in the stores over and over, while at the same time a mask mandate has been reinstated. This is not a good time to be implementing a ban and it is going to be yet another thing in addition to enforcing mask mandates (which has not been consistent) that retail workers will have to deal with.
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Re: Washington trying again to ban plastic bags

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Super S wrote: September 2nd, 2021, 7:39 am As I type this, the bag ban is expected to take place on 10/1/21. I am seeing a few instances of stores running out of bags, most notably Walmart which had NO bags of any kind to offer a couple days ago....the whole front end had none, not even the reusable ones. I have seen a few stores shifting to paper, and have heard of at least one already trying to charge the bag fees.

I also question this as Covid cases locally are at their highest levels ever, and people are going to bring their dirty bags in the stores over and over, while at the same time a mask mandate has been reinstated. This is not a good time to be implementing a ban and it is going to be yet another thing in addition to enforcing mask mandates (which has not been consistent) that retail workers will have to deal with.
I expect it will go into place. Many bag bans have gone back into place recently. A host of CO cities implemented bag bans on 9/1. Anchorage brought its bag ban back 9/1. Albuquerque brought its bag ban back last month.

Just pay the 8 cent fee in WA for the super thick plastic bags (one has as much or more plastic as 6 thin bags) and scratch your head. But the lawmakers will ensure everyone thinks they are helping the environment. It is like an alternate reality.

I wonder if there is any progress on building those pulp and paper plants to make bags for the increased paper bags as was written into the WA bill.

My bigger surprise is more retailers have not fought these bag regulations lately due to the rise in the pick up services. Those services, need the bags to operate efficiently. But there are still bags- super thick plastic ones that you pay a fee for. And they will just pass on the fee. The consumer has no power so they will just accept it.

I too have concerns regarding sanitation of reusable bags but not many people are using them, including in California. Nothing like pre-COVID. 75%+ of customers just pay the bag fee and most stores in CA have just the super thick bags, many chains no longer have paper bags in CA consistently unless local ordinance requires them to have paper. I have noticed a little better reusable bag presence in the larger cities with the customers going in and buying one bag of goods, but once you are out in suburbs with larger transactions, the reusable bags are much less common in California, than they were pre-COVID. I suspect ultimately what will happen is the bag fee will just keep rising.
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Re: Washington trying again to ban plastic bags

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storewanderer wrote: September 3rd, 2021, 12:49 am My bigger surprise is more retailers have not fought these bag regulations lately due to the rise in the pick up services. Those services, need the bags to operate efficiently. But there are still bags- super thick plastic ones that you pay a fee for. And they will just pass on the fee. The consumer has no power so they will just accept it.

I too have concerns regarding sanitation of reusable bags but not many people are using them, including in California. Nothing like pre-COVID. 75%+ of customers just pay the bag fee and most stores in CA have just the super thick bags, many chains no longer have paper bags in CA consistently unless local ordinance requires them to have paper. I have noticed a little better reusable bag presence in the larger cities with the customers going in and buying one bag of goods, but once you are out in suburbs with larger transactions, the reusable bags are much less common in California, than they were pre-COVID. I suspect ultimately what will happen is the bag fee will just keep rising.
Perhaps more surprising that those places doing the pickup services don't just invest in some inexpensive plastic bins. They could then ask when orders are placed if people want their items in bags (for a fee) or unbagged (they just bring the bin out and out the items into your bags or loose in your vehicle).

Alternatively, they could offer the bins to take home for a refundable fee (kind of like a bottle deposit, but high enough that people will return them when they come for the next order). That would be feasible, as they are much easier to clean out than a bag.

As to the reusable bags, it must just depend on the area, as I usually see most people bringing them in and going out with them here in NY - you do see a few people coming out with paper bags (which most stores charge for even if they are in areas where the fee is not required, and there was no option in our rules for the heavy plastic bags).
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Re: Washington trying again to ban plastic bags

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BillyGr wrote: September 3rd, 2021, 1:44 pm
Perhaps more surprising that those places doing the pickup services don't just invest in some inexpensive plastic bins. They could then ask when orders are placed if people want their items in bags (for a fee) or unbagged (they just bring the bin out and out the items into your bags or loose in your vehicle).

Alternatively, they could offer the bins to take home for a refundable fee (kind of like a bottle deposit, but high enough that people will return them when they come for the next order). That would be feasible, as they are much easier to clean out than a bag.

As to the reusable bags, it must just depend on the area, as I usually see most people bringing them in and going out with them here in NY - you do see a few people coming out with paper bags (which most stores charge for even if they are in areas where the fee is not required, and there was no option in our rules for the heavy plastic bags).
They do have plastic bins with the pick-up service, that is how the orders are transported from storage to vehicle. But if you do a pick up that has 50 items, and would have had 5 bags, it would take the employee a few seconds to load those 5 bags into your car. But if the items are unbagged, it is going to take them a few minutes to load the items into your car. Cost of lost efficiency far outweighs whatever the bag cost is.

I suppose they could just dump the 50 item plastic tote onto your back set and let the items just go wherever; that would certainly be efficient. Perhaps that level of service could be provided exclusively for the folks who put these bag bans into place. It is not right to expect the store employee to waste 3-5 minutes unloading individual items to your car, while there are other customers waiting, when the pick-up process would have taken a few seconds had the items been bagged.

I have seen some pick-up services in CA (notably Safeway) where it is mandatory to pay for the bag fee if you go to the store and pick the order up (assuming they actually charge it . . .). Wal Mart is optional. Target and Walgreens automatically charge you a bag fee (Target automatically charges you for 10 bags even if you have 1 item), but say they will take the fee off if you decline their bags. They bring the order out to you already bagged so if you decline the bags, (which have stickers with your name, etc. on them) the bags are then supposedly just thrown away. Had 1 Walgreens in CA tell me they had no way to take the 10 cent fee away when I picked the order up.
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